About the "NAVAL" way .............

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About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  James100 on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:07 am

you know i was thinking how much r the ships r gonna be big?
how much water in maps?
how many coasts or beachs etc......??????????

r there gonna be nuclear weapons.......................????



anyway gr8 mod
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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  Snake on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:38 am

We will create brand new "Naval Maps", these maps will be specially composed to better accommodate ships (since ships are going to be BIG), this means these maps will have limited land (islands, etc.) and a lot of water for naval combat.

However that limited "land component" will be very important in the Naval Mode, since it will house special tactical locations and capture points which will be vital to get the 'upper hand' in the inevitable battles.

To capture these land locations players will need to launch amphibious landing units from Amphibious Assault Ships, some examples of the released vehicles so far include the USMC's (US Marines) AAVP-7A1 and EFV:

AAVP-7A1:




EFV (Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle):




Both will be deployed from the "Naval War Factories/Barracks", the Amphibious Assault Ships (note we're still getting our ships ready, so we'll release them later).




About nukes and other WMD's (Weapons of Mass Destruction), we won't include them, but there will be some extremely powerful weapons which will replace them, some higher-class ships will be able to launch Cruise Missiles (such as the Tomahawk missiles) which will be a world away from Zero Hour's US mobile Tomahawk Launchers (vehicle).

Tactical Airstrikes, Artillery, etc. will largely take the special weapons "role" in TAOW, players will need to "earn" access to such capabilities though (by ranking up and earning more "general points").

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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  Pyrospastiac on Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:53 am

i had a thought for the generals abilities. i figured that evry single ZH mod ever made follows the original ZH system of gaining generals points, and spending them on a type of strike which was then called in whenever it finished cooling down.

But because there were only a certain amount of gen points up for grabs (i think about 7), you had to choose what strikes you wanted and then stick with them for the rest of the match. these would soon become boring, repeditive, and ineffective as your opponent soon learned what strikes you had available, and the right way to counter/avoid great loss from it.

what you could do is be the first mod to try and have unlimited generals points available over a match that can be accumulated to buy individual strikes which can be purchased as many times as you like. you can still use the teir system or make later strikes much more expensive than just 2 gen points, so as not to give away the big bad heavy strikes too early in game.

this system would mean diversity as to what strikes are purchased to respond to what instant threats have been identified, without wasting a valuable 1 of only 7 points, meaning you can't buy the 'big ones' later on in a match. kinks could be later worked out with such problems as spamming strikes with other possible methods, such as having a maximum strike cap (not my personal favorite Evil or Very Mad ), or just keep cooldown, but having to buy your strikes rather than having unlimited.
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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  Snake on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:31 pm

I'm not 100% sure, but I think there were more effective ways to "manipulate" the general points system (than the 'ol Zero Hour style unlocking scratch I'm not sure though).
Another way is to increase/decrease the ability unlock cost (the points needed to unlock a certain ability).

In TAOW we intend to use the General Unlock system to allow players to "progress" to higher ranks (higher rank = higher clearance and better vehicles/units/support), rather than unlocking standard air strikes or abilities (such as the classic A-10 strike/instant repair, etc.), players will be able to unlock particular stronger units and special upgrades (which will greatly enhance vehicles, to keep them in top shape along the match).

The unlockables will be specially composed of certain specialized units which will be greatly effective on their particular roles, this is specially noted on several particular "classes" (Artillery/Air Cover/Tanks/Special Infantry), the "Tactical Airstrikes" which I mentioned on the last post will be no longer composed of standard 'bomb drops' since the base system will be entirely replaced (which would make old attacks such as the A-10 or the fuel-air bombs highly ineffective, since all units will be very mobile and kind of "nomad", so to speak).

Instead of automatically controlled A-10/B-52/B-2's, the new "Tactical Strikes" will be actually directed by the player (like standard aircraft), the aircraft will leave the map once the "guns are dry" or are out of fuel.

Heavy bombers such as the B-52, the B-2A or the Tu-160 won't be able to land on standard airports/airfields (like standard air cover), instead they will obviously have a bigger cooldown (since these have a HUGE payload), on the other hand, there are certain ways of countering such powerful and deadly units, but these units are sure to strike fear on the adversary, and, if he/she is not careful, there will be a "bomb shower" upon them faster than they expect. affraid Razz

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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  Tusker2Zero on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:09 pm

Snake wrote:We will create brand new "Naval Maps", these maps will be specially composed to better accommodate ships (since ships are going to be BIG), this means these maps will have limited land (islands, etc.) and a lot of water for naval combat.

However that limited "land component" will be very important in the Naval Mode, since it will house special tactical locations and capture points which will be vital to get the 'upper hand' in the inevitable battles.

To capture these land locations players will need to launch amphibious landing units from Amphibious Assault Ships, some examples of the released vehicles so far include the USMC's (US Marines) AAVP-7A1 and EFV:

...


Hi there. First time poster here in this forum. I'm very excited about the naval aspect of this mod. My father being a former Marine, and my mother formerly being in the Navy, I've kinda got the sea bug in the blood, and I enjoy a good naval battle. pirat

The models that you have shown so far look outstanding. My complements to the modding team. Great job! I can't wait to get my hands on the finished product.

I enjoy making maps in my spare time (when I have spare time, which is rare these days) and I have a map that you might be interested in including with your mod, if it meets your specs. The map is named "Long Island Nuclear Winter" and is on the featured maps page of CnC Dens website:
http://www.cncden.com/genxmaps_featured.shtml

After learning that your going to have naval units in your mod, I've got the itch again to make another naval map. So, I'm gearing up to make another naval map, but I need some info about your ships, and your map requirements.

Here are some of my questions:

1.) You mention that the ships are going to be "BIG". Can you give me a rough estimate of the size of these ships? Destroyers half the size of the already in-game battleships? Amphibious assault ships slightly smaller than the already in-game aircraft carrier, or the same size?

2.) Any special structures associated with Naval Ops planned? Such as a Naval Tech Center, Tech Sub Base, Tech Oil Platform, or some other structure(s)?

3.) The larger ships, such as the amphib carrier and the already in-game battleships, do you have plans to make them movable, or are they going to be stationary objects like the battleships are now?

4.) Do you have a maximum map size limit that you'll accept. Ideally, what size map would you prefer, or recommend?

5.) Intro scripts allowed. Yes or No? The former mod that I made a couple of maps for, had a thing where intro scripts were a definite no-no. He considered them a distraction during the beginning of the game and a waste of time overall. Just wondering what your thoughts and requirements are (if any).

6.) Do you have any map preferences that your specifically interested in? Maps with lots of money, little money, lots of tech, no tech, no pre-placed factories, etc...

7.) Do you have any other requirements before you accept maps that I need to know about?

8.) After I've finished the map, where do I send it for approval?

Thanks for your time, and keep up the good work. I can't wait to play with the new naval units.
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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  Snake on Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:48 am

Welcome on board!!! 8) Smile

Me and the rest of the team love naval units as well, sunny (I loved the single ZH campaign mission which we could control a couple of battleships and the aircraft carrier, unfortunately that was the only one Sad and that sure as hell left us wanting more naval warfare Sad ).



(Note that we won't use that fictional aircraft carrier and those hideous Battleships/PT Boats lol!).

We are putting a lot of effort on this naval mode, and I'm sure you'll love it Wink.


Your map is excellent!!! In fact I played it myself a lot of times before and loved it Very Happy (specially for naval engagements Smile ).

I'm not sure at the moment, but there might be some compatibility problems between the standard Zero Hour mapmaker and TAOW's, that is due to the fact that we are creating a brand new and modified TAOW Mapmaker (which might be released before the first version of TAOW is out, probably after the beta).

Our mapmaker will accommodate all the changes we will include in the mod: tons of new civilian buildings, completely revamped and upgraded AI (a "smart AI" so to speak Laughing ) and many new extras to accommodate and give people a lot of new options to create naval/standard maps.

We won't use the standard building system to keep realism to the maximum:
Units are no longer "built" like standard ZH, all reinforcements will be called in by some special vehicles (such as Command Vehicles, etc.) and aircraft will drop them on the battlefield, the Naval Mode will have special ways of "acquiring" units, just as I stated earlier, Amphibious Assault Ships can be considered the new mobile/amphibious "War Factories" and "Barracks", they are able to directly deploy amphibious units (such as the AAVP-7A1) and other units will be deployed by other means (LCAC's for most ground vehicles/infantry and Helicopters (such as the UH-1Y Venom or Sea Hawk) for infantry/special forces).


Tusker2Zero wrote:You mention that the ships are going to be "BIG". Can you give me a rough estimate of the size of these ships? Destroyers half the size of the already in-game battleships? Amphibious assault ships slightly smaller than the already in-game aircraft carrier, or the same size?

We will try to make ships as realistic as possible in terms of scale, this means that Destroyers, Cruisers and special Aircraft Carriers are going to be HUGE, but there will be a build limit for both Destroyers and Cruisers (since both classes will be armed to the teeth) and players will start and only posses one single aircraft carrier (which will be the one to call in other ships as backup and is the new "Naval Command Center", protection of the aircraft carrier will be of utmost importance, but it will have some serious armor and anti-missile/anti-air capabilities so it won't go down before some serious effort and battle).


Tusker2Zero wrote:2.) Any special structures associated with Naval Ops planned? Such as a Naval Tech Center, Tech Sub Base, Tech Oil Platform, or some other structure(s)?

No, the player will access more powerful ship classes by earning General Points and then investing them to progress to higher ranks which in turn will unlock more land/air units as well (there will be specific ships/air or ground units which will be unlocked this way).

Tusker2Zero wrote:3.) The larger ships, such as the amphib carrier and the already in-game battleships, do you have plans to make them movable, or are they going to be stationary objects like the battleships are now?

Yes, all ships will be movable except the aircraft carrier, which will remain stationary on special map locations (usually on symmetrically similar locations as the enemies carrier), the naval "starting points".
Ships won't be able to "hug" the coast (there will be a distance limit), some special ships are able to move much closer to the shore for ground attack and some (special) ships are able to bring in elite infantry to sneak on the enemy.

Tusker2Zero wrote:4.) Do you have a maximum map size limit that you'll accept. Ideally, what size map would you prefer, or recommend?

Well, we gotta take a look at our experimental maps once our TAOW Mapmaker is complete, but Naval Maps will be usually big (most will have much more sea than land), standard "Land" maps are generally smaller.

Tusker2Zero wrote:6.) 7.) 8.)

Speaking of which, we'll make our mapmaker closer to Zero Hour's (so most people will be more "used" with it), we will make our own tutorial to explain all the new changes (ranging from the AI to new "Naval Maps" which will have a lot of new stuff and will be more flexible than ZH's).

We will have new "Game Modes" (please check the "TAOW Document"'s Gaming section for extra info ( http://taow.simulationboard.com/the-art-of-war-f6/the-art-of-war-documents-t119.htm ), and standard "resources" will be replaced with 'Reinforcement Points', players will gradually gain RP's by capturing and holding special locations ("tactical zones") through the map. The Zone's locations will vary depending on the "Game Mode", standard rush maps will usually include Zone's in centralized locations (equally reachable by all players) while the standard map will have more spread areas.

Of special importance are the new "Tactical Buildings" which will include Airports-Airfields/Bunkers, etc and will able the controlling player to have many advantages over the adversaries.

Later on we'll create a special section here on the forum where people and contributors will be able to send their maps sunny .

Many thanks for visiting us, and I would like to thank on behalf of the team with the map helping! santa 8) lol!

TAOW's ships won't be "cannon fodder", instead they will be realistically armed with everything ranging from Anti-Ship Missiles (the main, long range Anti-Ship form of attack), Ground Attack Missiles (such as Tomahawks), Anti-Air capabilities (Anti-Air Missiles/Guns/Close-In Weapon Systems - CIWS), Main Guns (for general purpose attack, and "close range" anti-ship attack) and there will be tons of options to down enemy incoming missiles (CIWS, Anti-Missile Missiles, etc.).

Since many ships will have insane AA capabilities, the main Air-to-Ship attacks will be from long range, Air-launched AsM's (Anti-Ship Missiles) so planes are able to attack from afar and avoid the ship's AA missiles/CIWS.

Players will need to be flexible to coordinate their efforts between the Warships/Naval Aviation/Landing Forces, all of them are vital and will play a big role along the battle.

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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  James100 on Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:30 pm

R U Gonna include Phalanx Or Navy Patriot Or even Sea Sparrow as ship armaments?
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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  Snake on Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:51 pm

Yes, CIWS (Close-In Weapon Systems) and missiles will be included in many ships for general surface to air attack and missile defense as well (against anti-ship missiles).

The CIWS are for close range (point-defense) while missiles will take care of targets at medium/long ranges. Note that ships such as Destroyers / Cruisers / Aircraft Carriers will be heavily defended by both (which will be rightfully compensated by the build-limit and cost factors).


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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  General Psycho on Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:48 am

I'm really looking forward to play Good Naval Battles, but I have only one question.

How do you get money in that mod?

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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  Tusker2Zero on Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:27 am

It would be neat to have an offshore oil rig that could be captured by a small landing ship of some sort.

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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  Snake on Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:04 pm

General Psycho wrote:I'm really looking forward to play Good Naval Battles, but I have only one question.

How do you get money in that mod?

The ZH "cash/resources" will be turned into "Reinforcement Points" ('RP') in TAOW, to earn more 'RP', players will need to capture control points (which will be tactically distributed through the battlefield). On Naval Maps, players will obviously earn more per Control Point ('CP') given the cost of ships and the effort that players will need have in order to mount successful landing operations.

Tusker2Zero wrote:It would be neat to have an offshore oil rig that could be captured by a small landing ship of some sort.

On the Naval Mode the main way to earn more RP will be (usually) to capture inland locations (to "motivate" players to launch their landing forces) and holding those positions is critical to get much more reinforcements, however there will be several alternatives (such as reinforcement airfields, etc.) and the fact that inland locations can receive Mobile ASM Launchers (Anti-Ship Missile Launchers).

At a later point, we will probably include extra alternatives (probably off-shore Oil Rigs for example? scratch , and probably some extra alternatives for the defensive naval players).

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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  General Psycho on Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:47 am

Maybe it would be good at the Starposition is a Point to Capture ( For example an Oil Rig) so a player who plays more passive at the beginning can get also RP

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Re: About the "NAVAL" way .............

Post  Snake on Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:29 pm

Yeah, and even probably make players automatically receive an exponential (continuous) amount of Reinforcement Points, since ships will be costly (probably via upgrade).

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