What kind of gameplay?

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What kind of gameplay?

Post  AgustaBE on Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:00 pm

hi m8tes,

first of all i want to say that im a huge fan of this project Very Happy the units and factions will be awesome !!!!

but

will it be "1 shot-1 kill"gameply,so if u shoot with a tank on another tank, will it be destroyed after 1 or 2 shots,
or will it last longer like in zero hour?(would be boring, then u would lose the realistic effect no?)

thx m8tes and keep up the good work !!!!
lovely mod !!!

(BTW: i really want to be helpfull i dont know a lot of programming but i know a lot of modern warfare!if i can help u for names, weapons etc. u can always mail me or something Wink bb)
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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:54 pm

Howdy!!! 8)

Welcome to the forums!!! sunny sunny sunny

F-16FightingFalcon wrote:hi m8tes,

first of all i want to say that im a huge fan of this project Very Happy the units and factions will be awesome !!!!

I speak for the whole team when I say we are humbled to create a project which is so important for people, MANY THANKS!!! cheers sunny


F-16FightingFalcon wrote:will it be "1 shot-1 kill"gameply,so if u shoot with a tank on another tank, will it be destroyed after 1 or 2 shots,
or will it last longer like in zero hour?(would be boring, then u would lose the realistic effect no?)

We will implement a more realistic tank/vehicle armor system based on real life.
On real life the standard tank armor is stronger in some particular points, for example, the tank's frontal armor is usually the most armor-protected part of a tank.



Frontal Armour -» Strongest Armor Point: Tanks can withstand several hits without being destroyed);

Lateral Armour
-» Medium Armor Point
: Tanks can only withstand a few hits;

Back Armour -» Smallest Armor Point
: Tanks can only withstand a very few amount of hits (depending on the attacking weapon's power it can even destroy the tank with only 1 or 2 hits).

Note that there are several upgrades which will encase tanks with extra armor layers (and thus making them more resistant, more particularly on the sides and back).

Note the M1A2 TUSK (Tank Urban Survival Kit) which gives the M1A2 some extra armor layers (2 lateral Active Reactive Armour Tiles and 1 "Cage/Slat" armor in the back to give improved defense against back attacks, specially against RPG's and other rockets/anti-tank projectiles):



As the player is ranked to a superior position, more armor upgrades will become available (to keep tanks on top shape), one of the most important will be the APS (Active Protection System), these systems will able the player's tanks to intercept RPG's and Missiles (to give the tank enhanced protection, specially against the deadly Air-Launched Anti-Tank missiles (anti tank helicopters, some ground attack planes).

Here is a small promo video of one if such APS systems (note: no publicity is intended lol):



Of course that these very useful APS systems will be only available a bit later as the player reaches higher ranks.


F-16FightingFalcon wrote:thx m8tes and keep up the good work !!!!
lovely mod !!!

(BTW: i really want to be helpfull i dont know a lot of programming but i know a lot of modern warfare!if i can help u for names, weapons etc. u can always mail me or something Wink bb)

Many thanks!!! We really appreciate the support Wink

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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  AgustaBE on Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:20 pm

Np m8te

once again i want to comment my admiration of u!!!!U are so clever!!!

if u need me , contact me !! ^^

bb and ty for the reply^^
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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:44 pm

Thanks Wink

Oh, by the way, almost forgot:

There are several special armors that have special effects, an example is the US Striker's "Slat / Cage" Armor upgrade, which considerably reduces damage from RPG's and other anti-tank weapons (prevents the rocket to pierce the vehicle's armour):




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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Pyrospastiac on Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:48 am

Snake wrote:
We will implement a more realistic tank/vehicle armor system based on real life.
On real life the standard tank armor is stronger in some particular points, for example, the tank's frontal armor is usually the most armor-protected part of a tank.

Frontal Armour -» Strongest Armor Point: Tanks can withstand several hits without being destroyed);

Lateral Armour
-» Medium Armor Point
: Tanks can only withstand a few hits;

Back Armour -» Smallest Armor Point
: Tanks can only withstand a very few amount of hits (depending on the attacking weapon's power it can even destroy the tank with only 1 or 2 hits).

Note that there are several upgrades which will encase tanks with extra armor layers (and thus making them more resistant, more particularly on the sides and back).

Note the M1A2 TUSK (Tank Urban Survival Kit) which gives the M1A2 some extra armor layers (2 lateral Active Reactive Armour Tiles and 1 "Cage/Slat" armor in the back to give improved defense against back attacks, specially against RPG's and other rockets/anti-tank projectiles):

As the player is ranked to a superior position, more armor upgrades will become available (to keep tanks on top shape), one of the most important will be the APS (Active Protection System), these systems will able the player's tanks to intercept RPG's and Missiles (to give the tank enhanced protection, specially against the deadly Air-Launched Anti-Tank missiles (anti tank helicopters, some ground attack planes).

Of course that these very useful APS systems will be only available a bit later as the player reaches higher ranks.

first off i'd just like to wish you the best of luck in making all the code that will implement different levels of armour on different sections of a unit. if you succeed in this, you will be forever praised as having the world of ZH coding as your bi-atch. lol!

but i think that there may be a third upgrade for your abrams tanks (no, it doesnt come after the APS system, that'd be something stupid like point lasers *cough ZH cough* geek ) upgrading to TUSK and APS would insist that your tanks start with the SEP upgrade. if you want them to roll off the production line with this system already installed that's fine, just a thought for further upgrade that they just start as m1a2 abrams, then go to m1a2 abrams SEP, then SEP TUSK, and then SEP TUSK APS.

another thing about the armour is that you said it would concern front, side, and rear armour. although these are all critical points to bulk up, there is also top armour to consider, the very large lack of top armour on most MTBs lead to the development of such weapons as the javelin ani-tank system to exploit this flaw by bringing the missile down on top of the tank. so if you plan to give your mod javelin soldiers then you should probably take into account top armour aswell. (usually weak)

keep up the great work so far, good luck on coding armour areas, and just an all-round well done.
-pyro.
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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Marc15yo [Admin] on Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:05 am

well, the tank armor idea was one of our early concepts. it's truly gonna be a &##(@@!)!#) to code. but i think we are gonna stick with only 2 damagable tank parts. turret, chassis. it's because the tank armor concept is code-able, it's just we'd have to make every single part that we want a seperate object and then attach them together using overlord logic thru coding. but that would be a &##(@@!)!#). so what i'm thinking of at least doing to simulate that, is using our randomizer (my personal favorite) and making heavy weapons, like tank shells, heavy rounds, artillery, missiles, each do a different amount of damamage every single shot.

ex: An M2A3 bradley decides to open fire on a Russian BMP2. one shot might hit and take away 50 "armor/health" points, the next shot takes 25 points, and the next might take 40 points. this can be achieved by coding in the weapon dammage to be done not directly form the weapon.ini but rather from the weapon's projectile code. if u coded weapons before u'd know what i mean. Also Since weapons will now miss once in a while, it insures to remove that annoying robotic, feel when in battle (you know, when players shoot at each other, and who wins is usually determined by time being exposed to the enemy rather than who hit who, and how much dammage did it cause..) adding all these will give the feel or 'simulate' a more dynamic way of shooting in taow. especially with the new features will be adding, like tanks being able to fire while moving (overlord contain module), Tanks being able to be hit either on the turret, or on the chassis....(overlord contain module).... the posibilities are endless. it's all about combining the right codes together to get the desired results. if you are just coding following the way the cnc folks did it, then u'll get what the cnc folks got.
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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:40 pm

Oh, by the way Pyrospastiac, about the "randomizer" logic:

The "Randomizer" is a major breakthrough in the mod, this logic will allow tanks / planes / ships / infantry to be differentiated from each other with different camouflage/paint schemes, luggage, configuration, model changes, etc.

This will be applied on several fields, just like Marc explained, it'll make battles much more unpredictable (instead of the unrealistic standard, predictable "damage taken" logic) and will randomize several variants per unit, for example you can have several different Abrams under your command.

This is applied for several upgrades as well, take for example the TUSK upgrade, as you can see there's a difference in the ERA-closing "flaps":







That's just an example of the randomizer, you can have either variants under your command. This will be applied in a lot of fields, specially aircraft.

Let's say you call in an A-10 CAS aircraft, changes can range from the standard paint job to the smallest insignias and number designations (aircraft will have several insignias - also based in real life - to make them different).

This will prevent "unit cloning".

To understand how this "insignias" will work on aircraft, take a look at this next render (NOTE: right click and select 'View Image' to take a look at the whole pic):





These images were made to give the team a clearer example on how profound details and changes will occur in the "randomizer", as you can see that's mad detailed.

This will occur with ALL units Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Pyrospastiac on Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:16 pm

that's a rly awesome idea and i rly look foreward to it. but you didnt just say for the emblems, you said it'd also cover paintscheme. i thought that would would be pre-determined by what map theme your on. (desert for desert, woodland for woodland). and then the emblems on the pre-determined map camo scheme would vary from the randomizer. couse it'd be kinda weird doing a desert mission, and then amongsed all of your desert tanks is a woodland one.

i think all the other tank commanders would just look at him like "dude, he's giving our position away! kill him!"
then the woodland tank would just look at all the desert tanks like "conformists" lol! lol!

-pyro
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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:30 pm

lol! Don't worry, there will be sort of an "upgrade" (not exactly an "upgrade", but close) that will allow the chosen vehicle to have a camo scheme appropriated with the fighting area (for example, let's say you have a desert-colored humvee, and you're moving into woodland area, you can activate this "Upgrade" to make it change the camo scheme into the most appropriated one), this feature will be very interesting on the multiplayer mode though (to actually use camo against the opponent).

This upgrade will be free and works kinda like the Overlord's contain logic:
- Woodland Camo;
- Desert Camo;
- Urban Camo;
- Snow Camo.

In other words, vehicles will have the standard color/camo scheme (let's say the Woodland or Olive one), and can "upgrade" their humvee to the most adequated environment / Area of Operations, this is a response to the fact that there might be several predominant schemes on a battlefield (Urban / Desert / Woodland, etc.) and players can manually choose this free upgrade to adapt their vehicles to the area.

(Note that those are just examples, don't quote me on these ones as this is still on an experimental basis).

About the color schemes, if we are going to include them big time, it may be on aircraft (woodland-colored A-10 / standard white/gray A-10, etc.)




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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:43 pm

In a sense, the randomizer will mainly work on tanks with:

- Different luggage;
- Registration Numbers;
- Other small model changes;
- Etc.

(While the standard-issue camo will be dictated by the majority of the battle area's environment, players can still manually change it later on as they wish).

However, note that there may be small camo changes among tanks with Desert / Woodland camos ("sub-camouflage patterns"), all randomized and made in order to make tanks different (instead of clones).

This way you may find several tanks with slightly different Woodland camos (think of it like the spots on Zebras Laughing ).

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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Pyrospastiac on Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:12 am

that's ridiculously awesome! Very Happy in my opinion the more randomizers you can incorperate into your mod the better. but will your sub camos be the same camo but in different spots (eg. same size and coloured splots on woodland but in different spots.) or will they be noticably different (different sized and coloured splots. maybe even not splots, maybe more angular shapes). i think that sup camos is awesome if they just change the place of it but not too much. the emblems and decals should give enough detail to the rest.



i also had some great ideas for the randomizer for infantry combat but it's too much to fit in this post. tongue

just lemme know if you guys are interested and ill send you some more info on the idea.
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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:14 pm

lol! Definitely, we want to include randomizers on all areas and units (to give our units a "singular feeling", instead of a bunch of clones Evil or Very Mad ).

About the sub-camos, well we want them to look similar on color terms (with small changes specially on the camo spots, etc.), we will probably use the main camo change system to make players choose several other specific Woodland / Desert patterns as they wish.

Basically, instead of C&C General's standard vehicle colors (which are "colored" according to the color the player choses in the beginning of a match), we will give players the chance to change the camo colors themselves (it's hell of a lot better than having "pink colored tanks" or other highly unrealistic (and "alternative") stuff like that Suspect Suspect Suspect ).

Speaking of infantry, the randomizer will be a breakthrough logic in this field, soldiers can carry different equipment, slight uniform changes and even having weapons with different attachments (such as scopes, tactical flashlights, etc.), take a look at these weapons for a small demonstration:

http://taow.simulationboard.com/member-s-access-f5/the-official-infantry-topic-of-the-art-of-war-t121.htm

Note how those light machine guns have scopes? Some may carry a different scope, different weapon stock/butt, and some might even have colored camouflage (on magazines or the weapon's "body" itself).

The randomizer will also able soldiers to have different human features such as:
- Many different faces;
- Many skin colorations;
- Hairstyle (specially visible if they're not using a helmet);
- etc.

As you can see, the randomizer will be certainly a very special tool, specially since no one used it on a mod the way we are using (so far, the randomizer was used for the standard, integrally included GLA Technicals).

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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Tusker2Zero on Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:44 pm

Sounds freakin' awesome! free smileys

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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:43 pm

Thanks 8) we are going to include this logic on everything from models and skins to damage calculation, this means that vehicles don't have a "constant" damage ratio (like Zero Hour has).

A sniper may hit or miss a shot, a tank may hit or miss a light vehicle.
A sniper may kill in one shot, a tank may destroy another vehicle in one shot.

The battlefield circumstances will dictate much of this damage (alongside with the randomizer).

This logic will make battles dramatically less "formulaic" (and much more unpredictable).

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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  General Psycho on Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:15 am

What about the Heroes? Will they be also included like in ZH Because I really liked to had the One Man Army Burton

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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:35 pm

Nope, there will be no Rambo's in TAOW (due to obvious realistic reasons), Special Forces will be the elite infantry.

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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Jarhead on Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:23 am

After noticing the same questions being asked repeatedly, I set out in search of the 2nd mega update. Little did I know that this search would span the world (wide web) taking a tremendous toll on several people and changing my life forever. My first stop for truth was the public library, where I found only a book written by a Chinese man, whose name I will not pronounce here, but nothing of any use. After over an hour of playing old maid for fingers with the librarian I was down two digits, and still had learned nothing about TAOW. Tired but un fettered I got on a bus. Sitting down I placed myself at the front so as I could ask the driver if he had heard anything of a second update for TAOW. He said he hadn’t, but I could tell he wasn’t telling me everything. So after several miles and another game of old maid I was back up a finger and rather smitten with myself. Quickly I exited the bus cutting into the nearest alley. This is when I tripped over a man cleverly disguised as pile of newspapers. After telling me how he had lost his house, his car, his computer and his wife I asked him the most important question of his life. Have you heard or seen a second update for TAOW? The man spoke, telling me a story of a first update of TAOW that he never saw because he lost his house, his car, his wife taking the computer. Weary he said that it must have been a year if it was a day since he had heard news. After snagging most of his newspaper I ran to my house. With 8 fingers (+ the one I won off the bus driver) I managed to pull up TAOW on my computer. But after searching every nook and cranny of the forum I could find nothing new. I cried for several minutes then proceeded to pickle the bloody finger laying in my ashtray. Then I began writing this post. To make a long story short, has anyone seen the 2nd Mega update yet? Thank you.
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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:10 pm

Hopefully, the Second Mega Update (SMU, as I like to abbreviate it lol! ) will come out when Chuck Norris gives the go ahead Laughing


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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Jarhead on Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:34 pm

LOL!!!
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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Jarhead on Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:01 pm

Love the randomizer damage idea, that alone is one level of the game. Before units from different factions had to be made as drastically different in nature and function, so as to not have "equal" units kill one another (dying instantaniously I would imagine) any time both players clicked on each others unit before they were in firing range (both players units stop and shoot at the same time --> 2 dead units). That alone really changes the game. Good thinking.
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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:38 am

Definitely, the original battles are too "formulaic", I mean, a tank hits another tank and the damage is purely based on the same formula:

- Power of the original unit;
- Armour of the "victim";
- Experience levels;
- Special Effects (like horde bonus);
- Etc.

This means that the player will tend to mass more tanks than the other team (in order to inflict more overall damage) which isn't realistic to say the least.

The randomizer can be a most important logic in order to bring fresh "physics" into the battlefield (of course that certain situations will improve the player's chance of doing more damage).

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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  AgustaBE on Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:31 am

Snake wrote:Definitely, the original battles are too "formulaic", I mean, a tank hits another tank and the damage is purely based on the same formula:

- Power of the original unit;
- Armour of the "victim";
- Experience levels;
- Special Effects (like horde bonus);
- Etc.

This means that the player will tend to mass more tanks than the other team (in order to inflict more overall damage) which isn't realistic to say the least.

The randomizer can be a most important logic in order to bring fresh "physics" into the battlefield (of course that certain situations will improve the player's chance of doing more damage).

hell yeah !
the randomizer is one of ur awesome ideas snake Thumbs Up!
will the camo and upgrades have an effect on the chance of doing more damage then?

greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttttttttttzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz cheers
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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:02 am

F-16FightingFalcon wrote:hell yeah !
the randomizer is one of ur awesome ideas snake Thumbs Up!

Thanks sunny , the idea came up when me, Marc and Smooder were discussing ways of having several European Tanks (we would buy a Main Battle Tank and a random European tank would appear (Challenger 2, Leopard 2A6, Leclerc, etc.).

We then had the idea of using the logic in many other fields (different infantry, different tanks in the same class, and even random logics such as random damage).

F-16FightingFalcon wrote:will the camo and upgrades have an effect on the chance of doing more damage then?
greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttttttttttzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz cheers

For some units it will, for example, snipers are much more accurate when they are in prone position and camouflaged (thus doing much more damage than running around), not to mention that they'll be much more protected.

Many vehicles will also have camouflage to help them hide (perfect for ambushes or hit'n run attacks and tactics).

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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  AgustaBE on Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:11 am

Snake wrote:

Many vehicles will also have camouflage to help them hide (perfect for ambushes or hit'n run attacks and tactics).

ok then nice idea marc and smooder Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up! lol!
but...will the camo have effect on the AI ? because the AI normally sees evereything lol!

greetz
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Re: What kind of gameplay?

Post  Snake on Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:54 pm

Oh yeah Twisted Evil , the camouflage will actually make units stealth (as long as they are not moving and shooting), so you can camouflage certain units to ambush AI enemies Twisted Evil .

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