New Standard US Weapon Poll

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Which weapon should be the next US Military standard assault rifle/light firearm in the mod???

43% 43% 
[ 15 ]
31% 31% 
[ 11 ]
3% 3% 
[ 1 ]
6% 6% 
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Total Votes : 35

New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:42 pm

"Which weapon is going to be the next US Military standard assault rifle/light firearm?"

That's one of the most popular questions regarding the US Military (specially in the last 25 years).
The US Military's main light infantry firearm is the M16 (or other AR-15/M16 derived variants), several versions were officially and formally adopted over the years (more recently the M16A2, and later on, the M4/M4A1 Carbines and M16A4 Assault Rifles), to view more information on the AR-15/M16/M4, check the "M16 History" topic later on this post.

The Art of War mod is placed on a close future where many new weapon systems and military technologies have come into light, when we asked ourselves: "which weapon should be the standard assault rifle for the US infantry???" we had our own favorite choices, but seeing as this is such a popular question, and people are extremely vocal about it, we decided to create a poll which will allow everyone to vote for their favorite new assault rifle replacement for the US Military in The Art of War mod.
There is also the option to keep the M16/M4 duo as the standard infantry weapons.

TAOW's main focus is realism, so we have to keep a realistic pre-selected amount of weapons, the selections will vary, to get specific information about each one of them check the following sections.


The poll's ending will be announced on the third Mega Update.

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XM8 Lightweight Assault Rifle


The XM8 was supposed to be the next generation light infantry weapon of the US Military, however it was formally canceled (after being suspended for some time).
This weapon haves many variants and supports a wide variety of attachments (check the last XM8 picture) which makes it highly adaptable to any kind of mission.



The quality of this weapon is outstanding, the XM8 uses the latest materials and is extremely reliable on a wide array of environments.



This weapon scored the best on a major set of reliability tests done be the US Army's Test and Evaluation Command one year ago, the “extreme dust test” was specially created to demonstrate the M4’s reliability on extreme environmental conditions and then compare it's performance to three newer carbines (XM8, Mk16 SCAR-L and the HK416).

"Officials tested 10 each of the four carbine models, firing a total of 60,000 rounds per model. Here’s how they ranked, according to the total number of times each model stopped firing:
• XM8: 127 stoppages;
• MK16 SCAR Light: 226 stoppages;
• HK416: 233 stoppages;
• M4: 882 stoppages."

The XM8 had an outstanding performance, the SCAR and the HK416 had a similar performance, the M4 performed worse than the XM8, SCAR and HK416 together.

Check the next link for the full review:
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/12/army_carbine_dusttest_071217/



The XM8 is a "byproduct" of the famous G36 Assault Rifle, by all means the XM8 is an outstanding weapon.

- Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO;
- Rate of fire: ~750 rounds per minute;
- Magazine capacity: 30 rounds / 100-rounds double drum magazine.
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Heckler & Koch HK416


By upgrading the British SA80A1 (L85A1) assault rifles into the SA80A2 (L85A2), Heckler & Koch (H&K) gained a lot of expertise with weapons upgrading, after the rejection of the OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon) and later on the XM8, HK took interest on the American M4 Carbine (which haves several integral problems) and fixed most of it's problems with several modifications, the end result is the HK416 assault rifle.



The HK416 itself is basically an M4 on the outside, while the inside was upgraded, the key improvement over the M4 is the short-stroke gas piston system ("borrowed" from the G36) which replaced the direct gas system of standard M16/M4 rifles.
The M4's direct gas system is problematic to some extent (and specially fragile on extreme weather conditions and on sustained fire sessions), the HK-patented short-stroke gas piston system manages to keep powder residues and other particles from jamming the weapon and it's also self regulating, which will make it extremely reliable with any barrel length.



Key improvements over the M4 are as follows:
- Short-Stroke Gas Piston System;
- Improved Bolt;
- New Buffer Assembly;
- Free-Floating Handguard (does not contact the barrel thus improving accuracy) with 4 Integral Picatinny-Type Rails (accepts a huge number of attachments such as lasers, flashlights, scopes, etc.);
- Cold Hammer Forged Barrel (average service life of 20.000 rounds)



The HK416 was made with the collaboration of some US SOCOM (Special Operations Command) operatives (especially "Delta Force" operatives) and is in wide use in SOCOM as of this moment (specifically by "Delta Force", US Navy DEVGRU SEAL Team Six, etc.)

Many nations are already adopting the HK416 as their standard issue weapon.

- Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO;
- Rate of fire: 700-900 rounds per minute;
- Magazine capacity: 20 rounds / 30 rounds / 100-rounds double drum magazine.
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Robinson Arms XCR


The XRC is a new line of assault rifles which is quite notorious for it's great array of possible calibers, initially a candidate for the US SOCOM's SCAR (Special operations Combat Assault Rifle) program, it was disqualified due to particular technicalities.



The XCR is now being offered for military (military versions), law enforcement and general public (civilian versions), with several calibers in mind.

This weapon also haves several variants (specially military versions), the variants are usually differentiated by their barrel lengths which can be modified to particular situations on the battlefield).

XCR Light 5.56 Semi-Auto Rifle:


XCR CQB/SBR (Close Quarters Battle/Short Barreled Rifle) Variant:


Many people are wondering if there's a chance the US Military will adapt this rifle (even in small numbers).

- Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO / 7.62x39mm / 6.8 mm SPC / 6.5 mm Grendel / etc.
- Rate of fire: 700-900 rounds per minute;
- Magazine capacity: 30 rounds (5.56 variant) / various other magazines compatible per caliber variant.
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Barrett REC7 (aka M468)


The Barrett REC7 (previously known as M468) is an interesting development which uses the design of the M4 and adds the new 6.8x43mm Remington SPC caliber (this particular caliber can be considered to be "between" the 5.56x45mm (M16) and the 7.62x39mm (AK47) calibers in terms of velocity and bore diameter yet with more energy than both, meaning more stopping power (specially in closer ranges since this caliber was designed to deliver 44% greater energy than the 5.56 mm NATO round at a distance of 100 to 200 meters)).



The main difference between older Barret M468's and the newer REC7's is that they were previously fitted with a full stock instead of a collapsing stock (which is the standard on the new REC7 model).

M468's:




This weapon uses a short stroke piston system and, just like the HK416, the upper receiver can be bought separately to be equipped on the standard M4's (significantly reducing costs, which would be much more larger if brand new weapons were to be bought, this is a fact that makes many people wonder if the US military will literally "adopt" these weapons to "replace" their older M16/M4's.

- Caliber: 6.8 mm Remington SPC;
- Rate of fire: ~750 rounds per minute;
- Magazine capacity: 5, 10, 20, 28 (the old standard) or the newer 30 round magazines.
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Bushmaster Adaptive Combat Rifle (ACR)


The Bushmaster ACR is an updated Magpul Masada assault rifle which was primarily built with the civilian market in mind, recently, the ACR producers are moving on to the military/law enforcement markets as well (2009).
Bushmaster will take the production of the Masadas and will eventually start producing the new Bushmaster ACR military/civilian variants.

The Magpul Masada:




Current Bushmaster ACR prototypes in several configurations/variants:

Standard Version:


SPR Version:


ACR Version:


- Caliber: 5.56x45mm NATO / 7.62x39mm;
- Rate of fire: supposed to be from 600 to 800 rounds per minute;
- Magazine capacity: 30 rounds (standard 5.56 NATO round).
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M16/M4


If the new choices don't appeal to you, or you are a purist who loves the iconic M16 "family" over everything else, there's always the chance to keep the M16/M4 duo.
Note that, if selected, the team will use the latest versions (the latest standardized variants to be exact).

M16A4


M4A1


For more information/images, read the following "M16 History" Topic.

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M16 History


The M16 has been the standard rifle in the US Military since the 60's (when it first entered service), being first developed in the late 50's, the AR-15 ("Black Rifle") was slightly modified with a full automatic capability (and other small changes) and was eventually adopted by the United States Air Force (USAF) as the "M16".

The M16:



The US Army was also very interested in the M16 and adopted a prototype version of the M16 (XM16E1), the major improvement the XM16E1 had over the standard M16 was the new forward assist.

Note the forward assist on the XM16E1:



The XM16E1 eventually "evolved" into the widely known M16A1, which saw a lot of action in Vietnam, this particular model had some older reliability issues fixed and also had a new "bird-cage" flash suppressor which differed from the XM16E1's three-pronged flash suppressor (which caused a series of problems on the field), other new, smaller modifications were inserted as well.

M16A1:



The next major variant was the M16A2 (entered service in 80's), this model is a mainstay in the US Military until today.
This model had fixed many problems originated in older M16 designs and also incorporated the iconic "three round burst" which had originated on it's previous prototype variant, the M16A1E1, which eventually became the M16A2 in 1982.
This variant was adopted by the US Marines in 1983 and by the US Army two years later.



More recent major variants are the M4/M4A1 Carbines and the M16A4.

The M4/M4A1 Carbines can be considered a descendant from an older line of AR-15 based carbines (CAR-15, XM-177) which dates back to the 60's.
A modern carbine is basically a shorter and lighter rifle (originally intended for cavalry use).
The standard M4 is a shorter and lighter version of the M16A2, equipped with a collapsible stock and smaller barrel (the flash suppressor from the M16A2 was removed).

U.S. military-issue M4 with a "Flat Top" (also note the Double Heat Shield Foregrip):



Initial M4's had a fixed carrying handle and a standard 'safety, single-fire, three round burst' trigger group (those particular M4's were delivered on the first package), but the later M4 variants received the "Full-Auto" in place of the 3-round bursts and a "Flat Top".

Initial M4 Carbine model (note the fixed M16A2 Upper Receiver and Carrying Handle):



The standardized M4 variant was equipped with a Picatinny rail on top of the receiver (the "Flat Top" which was referred a while back) which allows soldiers to easily equip and use other sighting equipment instead of the original carrying handle with the standard iron sight, there are many popular scopes (such as the ACOG, Aimpoint M68, etc.).

The M4A1 is the most common M4 model in use with the US Military (and is the one which is being fully standardized since the late 90's), the main difference from the standard M4 is the new receiver (differs from the first generation A2 receivers) and the new "Full-Auto" instead of the "3 round burst" included in the M4's trigger group.

Current-issue M4A1 with several attachments (M203 grenade launcher, ACOG scope, RIS-type system with Heat Shields attached, etc.)



The SOCOM (Special Operations Command) favored the M4A1 for a long time and created the SOPMOD (Special Operations Peculiar Modification) kit, this kit consists on a set of attachments which will be attached on the M4A1 to correspond to the mission needs.

SOPMOD Block I (first generation SOPMOD, there are newer versions)


The M4A1 and the HK416 are currently serving alongside on many SOCOM-based Units.

The M16A4 is the latest addition in the M16 family to be a standard issue firearm for front-line US Marines and some US Army units, the major upgrade over the M16A2 is that the A4 replaces the fixed carrying handle/standard iron sight with a Picatinny rail system which will allow the user to equip other sighting equipment.


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Last edited by Snake on Tue May 05, 2009 1:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Pyrospastiac on Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:48 pm

hard choice. i was dead set on the XM8 untill snake told me the US spec-ops would probably use the XM8 family.then i was gonna choose something else. but seeing as if the spec-op variants were available to players such as the sharpshooter and squad support variants, no one would choose the standard carbine! tongue
so, i figured why not just let the grunts have it? lol! Rock on!
XM8 FTW!!!
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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:55 pm

lol! Damn right! I was gonna choose either the XM8 or the HK416, I chose the HK416.

The randomizer will act sweetly with light weapons, we'll be able to use tons of attachments which will make those guns look sweet Twisted Evil

Also, we will use other versions such as various weapon variations (that's why I posted a lot of pics to show other models) Rock on! , we can start forgetting those hideous ZH "blocks" (which have the funny nickname "infantry weapons" Razz Razz Razz )

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  James100 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:49 am

i was gonna chose the HK416
But i chose XM8
This mod is gonna Rock on! Rock on! Rock on! Rock on! Rock on! Rock on! Rock on! Rock on!
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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  General Psycho on Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:39 am

I'm for the Robinson Arms XRC. The Pic where it is camo look soo fucking cool!!!!!!!!!

That gun Rock on! Rock on! Rock on! Rock on! Rock on! Rock on! Rock on!

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:27 pm

Thanks, gotta love all that hardware!

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  AgustaBE on Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:20 am

hey there

i voted the HK 416 because the xm8 wont be used by the military
actually the US will use (i think) the scar-l as standard assault rifle for special forces since it is a modular weapon(so u can change most parts with other versions etc)the HK 416 is also modular
these weps are the result of a research project of the us governement

the scar won !!!(FN herstal is a belgian company !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

but sinc that isnt included in the vote, i voted for the HK416
but also because they've used the M4/M16 model for the development of the HK416
this is certainly an advantage because the soldiers in the field are familiar with that design

greetz !!!
cheers
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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:33 pm

I assure you that the SCAR (Special Forces Combat Assault Rifle) will be included Twisted Evil (the weapons will be used by US Special Forces though).

The main SCAR version will be the Mk.16 Mod 0 SCAR-L (Light):



We may probably include the heavier Mk.17 Mod 0 SCAR-H (Heavy) as well:



At first we had the SCAR in the selection, but we removed it due to the fact that it's a special forces rifle (designated for Special Operations).

Belgium is a prime manufacturer of top of the line weapons (some of the best weapons in the world), in the mod we will include many FN (Fabrique Nationale) weapons, two examples are the F2000 assault rifle and P90 (which will be used by European Union Forces):

F2000:



P90:


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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Chadaface on Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:28 pm

Right now,the Heckler & Koch 416 looks like the best
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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  AgustaBE on Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:46 pm

Snake wrote:I assure you that the SCAR (Special Forces Combat Assault Rifle) will be included Twisted Evil (the weapons will be used by US Special Forces though).

The main SCAR version will be the Mk.16 Mod 0 SCAR-L (Light):



We may probably include the heavier Mk.17 Mod 0 SCAR-H (Heavy) as well:



At first we had the SCAR in the selection, but we removed it due to the fact that it's a special forces rifle (designated for Special Operations).

Belgium is a prime manufacturer of top of the line weapons (some of the best weapons in the world), in the mod we will include many FN (Fabrique Nationale) weapons, two examples are the F2000 assault rifle and P90 (which will be used by European Union Forces):

F2000:



P90:


sounds great !!!

I think the scar-H should be an "upgrade/replacement" for the scar-L i think, so u have more firepower but less accuracy or something^^

or u can use the sniper variant for Designated Marksmans(of special forces for sure, I assume that there will be the 3 classes of snipers in a SF squad too^^) like i've read in an other topic(about snipers and upgrades )since its quite light and very reliable

greetz
cheers
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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:52 pm

Yeah, special forces will have a lot of "exotic" (non standardized) weaponry (not the classic M16 so to speak, know what I mean?)

Once we announce our infantry, we will create a table similar to the one of the vehicles with the infantry classes and their respective weapons 8)

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Pyrospastiac on Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:53 am

lol, the poll has 7 votes! but seeing as i guess the last one had only 4 votes, 7 is nearly double the turnout!!! lol!
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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:56 am

lol! Yeah, on the next update (Second Mega Update) we will "officially" announce the poll on moddb (so all the modwatchers can know about it and express their right to vote Razz).

We will announce the end of the poll during the Third Mega Update (this poll is gonna run for a considerable amount of time), even with few votes, the result will dictate which weapon will be the US standard in the mod.

The last poll (the one about 3D cockpits) was kind of a test (in the early forum days), the poll only ran for a few days and the voters were team members (it was a small test for the poll system as well).

We don't have the habit of making a lot of updates on Moddb lately, but when we do, we always rise to the 1st place of the mod watching rank Rock on! (even if only for a couple of days), that's bound to be enough to catch the attention of the public about the poll and even the forums (and hopefully rack up a couple of extra votes lol! ).

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:48 pm

It looks like the HK416 is taking the cake at this point lol!

There are some games which depict US infantry with HK416's as well, I recall Battlefield: Bad Company for PS3/Xbox 360 in which our main character (an US Soldier, campaign mode) is equipped with one of those and specially the US Assault Infantry class (multiplayer mode) is equipped with HK416's (called the "M416" in game).

Those particular "M416's" are also equipped with M203 grenade launchers (and leaf sights):


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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  AgustaBE on Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:36 am

i think actually u should use the m4 or hk416
but i would like to see the m4 as standard AR but the HK416 for some special forces(like the scar-l)
greetz
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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:46 pm

By using the randomizer logic, we are able to effectively differentiate standard issue weapons from Special Forces weapons (even if they are models from the same weapon type).

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Tusker2Zero on Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:06 am

Waiter... I'll have an XM8 Future Combat Rifle / Lightweight Assault Rifle with a side order of an M320 Grenade Launcher attached, with a sprinkling of XM1060 40mm Thermobaric Grenades loaded into it ...
... and I'm in a hurry... Chop, chop... party smileys

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

XM1060 40mm Thermobaric Grenade:

"... Thermobaric cartridges provide soldiers with a significantly greater probability of kill/incapacitation within the effective radius. Thermobaric cartridges provide soldiers with a significantly greater probability of kill/incapacitation within the effective radius. The lethality effect results from a thermobaric overpressure blast rather than fragmentation. As a result of the thermobaric reaction, all enemy personnel within the effective radius will suffer lethal effects as opposed to the conventional fragmentation round. ..."

"... On 22 April 2003, PM-SW received an urgent need from the Combined Joint Task Force-the rounds would now be used in Afghanistan. The rounds were shipped on April 30. An e-mail from Maj. Gen. John Vines, commanding general, Combined Joint Task Force 180, made it all worthwhile. "We love it," he wrote. "We want more! The rounds work wonderfully in caves; they are quite effective. We want a boatload." In five short months, these cartridges were developed, tested and produced, and are now being used in the war on terrorism in Afghanistan. More are in the works."

Source - GlobalSecurity.org:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m1060.htm

tongue smileys

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:56 pm

lol! lol! lol! (Kinda reminds me of a James Bond movie scene, when a ship captain is trapped on a "pressure chamber" and turns into a puddle of red jello).



We'll include the XM1060 FA rounds as a special type of munition for later US Infantry, these 40mm grenades will be extremely effective to clear buildings of enemy troops (kinda like the role that the Zero Hour "Flashbang" does, only flashbangs are non-lethal weapons in real life ).

The M320 Grenade Launcher will be the standard issue grenade launcher for the US Infantry in the mod (no more M203 or M203A1, sorry). This means that if any of the "competitor" weapons is selected, it's underslung grenade launcher will be the M320 in every case.

Note the M320 mounted on this M4:



People will also see AG-36 and AG-C Enhanced Grenade Launching/Launcher Module in use in the mod (both European and American forces, specially spec ops).

The AG-C is basically a modified AG-36 GL for use in M16/M4-type weapons (for those who don't know, the M320 grenade launcher is basically a modified version of the AG-36 / AG-C and will replace the M203 in US Military use).

Check this very cool pic from a Netherlander Marine (note the AG-C attached to his Diemaco C8 ):



I've been in contact with these AG-36-type weapons (when visiting a Portuguese Marines base), and I've gotta say that it's pretty sweet to listen to the "bloop" it does when we open the side breach to load a 40mm grenade) 8) .

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  ferekh on Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:03 am

XM8 All The Way

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  James100 on Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:05 am

Rock On! Wink
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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:12 pm


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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:17 pm

Hold the phones!!!

The M16/M4 duo is stepping forward, the XM8 is still taking the cake at this point though Razz

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  James100 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:52 am

Yeah! But The M16/M4 Made A REVOLUTION Shocked Razz
personnaly i would like or HK416 or XM8 Very Happy
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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:01 pm

Yeah, me too (those are my two favorites).

About that M16 resumed history, I made it myself (It took a while, specially since the first version was too big for a single post Shocked , it exceeded the maximum number of words/phrases Razz , I had to cut some points but in the end it turned out great king ).

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

Post  Snake on Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:02 am

On the next update we'll "officially" announce the poll, hopefully we'll rack up a few extra votes.

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Re: New Standard US Weapon Poll

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