Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Squadleader on Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:49 am

ahhh cool:DD: but were is the differnet??

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Jarhead on Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:50 pm

Did you guys know an EFVP1 Can carry up to 17 armed Marines? Have you guys thought about modding the control bar for such instances?
Like you notice there is a map in zerohour with a mansion/castle look to it (its huge) can hold like 30 guys in it in the game. But when you go and click on it to get your guys out, the game crashes. Are you guys sticking to reality?
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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  James100 on Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:59 pm

Duuuuuuuude Come On
We've Got Class Laughing
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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Tusker2Zero on Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:31 pm

Jarhead wrote:Did you guys know an EFVP1 Can carry up to 17 armed Marines? Have you guys thought about modding the control bar for such instances?
Like you notice there is a map in zerohour with a mansion/castle look to it (its huge) can hold like 30 guys in it in the game. But when you go and click on it to get your guys out, the game crashes. Are you guys sticking to reality?
Yes. I've also heard this from many other times as well. I love the castle, but I never go garrisioning it beyond 12 soldiers. If it's at all possible for a modder to fix, I'd love to see it fixed. If it can't be fixed then I'd like to see the castle's slots be reduced to 12 to 14, or something just before the crash limit.

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Snake on Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:50 am

Jarhead wrote:Did you guys know an EFVP1 Can carry up to 17 armed Marines? Have you guys thought about modding the control bar for such instances?

Yeah, there are certain vehicles which will be able to carry much more infantry, if a vehicle can carry so many units that can't be shown on the standard bar, then on that case we'll have a sort of a control bar "button" which the player can press in order to watch all the infantry which is in the vehicle.

We mustn't forget that this will change in a sense because TAOW's infantry is Squad controlled (we'll make some changes to "accommodate" that).

Tusker2Zero wrote:
Jarhead wrote:Did you guys know an EFVP1 Can carry up to 17 armed Marines? Have you guys thought about modding the control bar for such instances?
Like you notice there is a map in zerohour with a mansion/castle look to it (its huge) can hold like 30 guys in it in the game. But when you go and click on it to get your guys out, the game crashes. Are you guys sticking to reality?
Yes. I've also heard this from many other times as well. I love the castle, but I never go garrisioning it beyond 12 soldiers. If it's at all possible for a modder to fix, I'd love to see it fixed. If it can't be fixed then I'd like to see the castle's slots be reduced to 12 to 14, or something just before the crash limit.

Yeah, if we are able to fix that crash issue then it'll be able to garrison several infantry squads, then again, if there's absolutely no way of fixing it, then we have to stick to the possible limits (to create a sort of a "balance"), hopefully that can be probably fixed sunny

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Jarhead on Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:17 am

Seems to me that the Mob couldn't garrison anything, hope it works.
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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Snake on Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:31 am

Yup, when Marc fist proposed the formation of squads (the "separation" from the singular unit concept), one of the very fist issues was how to garrison buildings and vehicles, fortunately, he managed to create a sort of a special logic which will enable squads to do so (kinda difficult to explain).

The creation of that very logic solved countless possible problems which would eventually arise with the garrison system.

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Squadleader on Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:38 pm

do soldier wlak around the carrier and if a plane starts then a soldier make the signs with the things there (i dont know how they named:D:D:D

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Snake on Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:46 pm

Very Happy Nope, it would be basically impossible to realistically include that on Zero Hour (due to certain limitations).

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Jarhead on Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:06 pm

Way to go Marc!
But does "Mob" logic negate the "X" button's function?(disperse)
Does this also mean that a sniper team will not be able to "garrison" certain trees?"
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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Snake on Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:54 am

But does "Mob" logic negate the "X" button's function?(disperse)

The Mob logic is being kinda "pimped" in order to automatically disperse the soldiers Laughing (on a certain distance though).

Does this also mean that a sniper team will not be able to "garrison" certain trees?"

I'd say it would be very difficult to do so, specially since snipers will be a two-men team (Spotter + Shooter) opposed to the single unit in ZH.

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Squadleader on Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:19 pm

hmmmm:D:D:D


u know code name panzers??

if u get in a hosue there u can see the flat

is it able in ur mod??

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Snake on Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:54 pm

You mean, a tank rushing in through a house? scratch

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Jarhead on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:50 pm

Not that everybody dosen't already have a lot on their plate, but while watching the inauguration of the President of the U.S.. I couldn't help but notice that his cadillac is bad ass. I don't mean kinda bad ass I mean like could probably take a rocket bad ass. So what I am proposing, and I hope someone is taking notes out there is the presidential limosine for possiable mission modes. Nothing integral at this point but something to be considered down the road.
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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Snake on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:18 pm

Interesting scratch , it could probably be an interesting cameo (and who knows, probably appear during the campaign).

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Pyrospastiac on Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:58 pm

lol, pretty heavy mission objective.
"protect Obama from the russians or else you're so screwed"
oh great, so much for change, he's pretty much boned.
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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Squadleader on Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:23 am

no i mean if soldiers get in a house that u cann see them if they walk in the house u know?Very Happy:D

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Snake on Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:52 am

Pyrospastiac wrote:lol, pretty heavy mission objective.
"protect Obama from the russians or else you're so screwed"
oh great, so much for change, he's pretty much boned.

lol! lol! lol!

Squadleader wrote:no i mean if soldiers get in a house that u cann see them if they walk in the house u know?Very Happy:D

Unfortunately the Zero Hour logic does not allow us to to it Sad (we will try some of our concepts to try to add some extra realism to that though Very Happy ).

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Jarhead on Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:52 am

I am suprised someone didn't pick him off, there are a lot of crazy people in the south. Before the inaugeration they were talking about all the armor that thing has and how its air tight and has a built in fire system. First thing I thought was TAOW.

About garrisoned buildings, personally I hate the fact that you can tell when there is someone in a building. If I were to garrison a building I sure as hell wouldn't board up the windows and put a flag on top! Cities are tough to move trough safely in real life, no warning signs just all hell breaking loose out of nowhere. I don't see why TAOW should be any different.
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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Snake on Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:39 pm

Jarhead wrote:I am suprised someone didn't pick him off, there are a lot of crazy people in the south. Before the inaugeration they were talking about all the armor that thing has and how its air tight and has a built in fire system. First thing I thought was TAOW.

The Secret Service haves one heck of a duty, we may not watch it on the TV, but they have countless defenses and have many plans in case "things go wrong" (the same goes to their vehicles, specially the Presidential Limo).

Many of those Secret Service Agents (specially the ones closer to the Presindent) are ex spec ops so they are immensely trained to act on any kind of situation.

Jarhead wrote:About garrisoned buildings, personally I hate the fact that you can tell when there is someone in a building. If I were to garrison a building I sure as hell wouldn't board up the windows and put a flag on top! Cities are tough to move trough safely in real life, no warning signs just all hell breaking loose out of nowhere. I don't see why TAOW should be any different.

Completely agreed, I personally think that the fact that garrisoned buildings in ZH change appearance like they do is ludicrous to say the least (I mean, they might as well paint a bullseye on the soldiers foreheads).

In TAOW, buildings will obviously remain exactly the same both when garrisoned or empty (no more flags and colors and "mysterious barricades").

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Pyrospastiac on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:47 pm

but when units garrisoned in buildings get detected will not be an easy task. alot of mods try to choose one time that they become spotted (usually before or after they've fired) but i think it requires more depth than that.
for instances a large squad would probably be spotted right away, you'd see their men in the windows.
a smaller anti-tank crew would be seen after they fire, the enemy just traces the massive smoke trail of the rocket back to the right building and boom.
but a sniper team, would not be visible before firing, and probably not after firing either. the only way to spot them is to scan the building for heat signatures.
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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Jarhead on Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:34 am

I've been trying to work out how FLIR might work in the game (started thinking about it for the apache) but it kinda kills the whole prone stealth thing. As I always say when something is to good to be true, put it really high on the tech tree. Until you reach that level, do yourself a favor and don't send masses of troops towards towns/cities. Unless they are crawling on their bellies or have a nice layer of smoke to keep them from sight.
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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Jarhead on Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:48 am

I've been trying to work out a system where lower troops from different branches have skills unique to their unit type. Each offering something different and useful in its own way. It seems to me that if you move up the tech tree, some of the "lower" units skills should be passed on to the Spec Ops of their branch. Still leaving the lowly soldier a unique benefit, while also passing on some ability(s) to higher operators. The farther up the tree you go the less likely you are to have to use the simple soldier. But you can never absolutely do with out them. Only that by combinding certain skills this also helps with the micro management side of things.

I have two questions, 1. How many upgrades can you really give a single infantry unit. 2. What are the different ways that can be coded in which a unit can be "upgraded." (and of course C. Is everything going to be done in the generals promotion window?)
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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Snake on Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:08 pm

Pyrospastiac wrote:but when units garrisoned in buildings get detected will not be an easy task. alot of mods try to choose one time that they become spotted (usually before or after they've fired) but i think it requires more depth than that.
for instances a large squad would probably be spotted right away, you'd see their men in the windows.
a smaller anti-tank crew would be seen after they fire, the enemy just traces the massive smoke trail of the rocket back to the right building and boom.
but a sniper team, would not be visible before firing, and probably not after firing either. the only way to spot them is to scan the building for heat signatures.

Yeah that is because ZH haves some very basic coding complications when it comes to garrisoning buildings. Hopefully, me and Marc will create something BIG to remedy this Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

We will try to create more interactive buildings to certain levels (highly experimental idea, but I can assure you it'll completely rock if we manage to do it Rock on! ).

Jarhead wrote:I've been trying to work out how FLIR might work in the game (started thinking about it for the apache) but it kinda kills the whole prone stealth thing. As I always say when something is to good to be true, put it really high on the tech tree. Until you reach that level, do yourself a favor and don't send masses of troops towards towns/cities. Unless they are crawling on their bellies or have a nice layer of smoke to keep them from sight.

Too true Thumbs Up!, fortunately the FLIR will act on the helicopter aiming and even (gunship/aerial) team combat levels Twisted Evil.

Jarhead wrote:I've been trying to work out a system where lower troops from different branches have skills unique to their unit type. Each offering something different and useful in its own way. It seems to me that if you move up the tech tree, some of the "lower" units skills should be passed on to the Spec Ops of their branch. Still leaving the lowly soldier a unique benefit, while also passing on some ability(s) to higher operators. The farther up the tree you go the less likely you are to have to use the simple soldier. But you can never absolutely do with out them. Only that by combinding certain skills this also helps with the micro management side of things.

Certainly, the general infantry will be the core of the army and as the battle progresses, players will be able to upgrade their soldiers into much higher levels (Future Soldier perhaps? scratch ), so even with special forces, the player will most likely want to always have a strong infantry component, specially since infantry will be vital to assist vehicles such as tanks.

Jarhead wrote:I have two questions, 1. How many upgrades can you really give a single infantry unit. 2. What are the different ways that can be coded in which a unit can be "upgraded." (and of course C. Is everything going to be done in the generals promotion window?)

1 - The number of upgrades for an individual unit can be considered to be high, however, there is a certain total limit of upgrades in general (we won't be able to generally include more upgrades once we reach the max capacity limit so we have to be careful on how many upgrades we include and make sure we distribute them accordingly).

2 - That really depends on the unit, better ask that on the C&C Modding section though, Marc can explain that much better than I can (he's an expert on the upgrade logic).

3 - Much of it will, specially via standard ranking and specialized unit unlocking (which is influenced by the standard ranking).

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Re: Discussion: GamePlay and Units Ideas

Post  Pyrospastiac on Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:29 pm

interactive as in one of your units pokes the building with a stick and it eats him??? scratch
OM NOM NOM NOM!!! lol!
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